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Post by CJ on Jul 2, 2012 18:37:12 GMT -5
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Post by Shark a' Pult on Jul 2, 2012 18:41:25 GMT -5
It's in movies and books, and just about everything else, I don't see why not.
It all depends on how it's treated. In relation to this tomb raider thing, from what I understand, Lara was not to actually be raped. It's just a QTE which you get out of, and it starts the plot ball rolling.
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Post by Neurotick on Jul 2, 2012 18:49:34 GMT -5
Short answer: no.
Less short answer: wellllll...it kind of depends. I am not against rape in any particular type of media, so long as it is handled well. Rape happens. Sadly, it happens quite a lot. It's not something we can just gloss over and not allow to be used in stories, because that would just make things irrevocably worse. Representing social issues in the media is one of the best ways to change the status quo. The problem is that people tend not to handle rape as a part of the plot very well at all. In Tomb Raider's case, I think it's absolutely atrocious. No question. Video games need to jump the hurdle of actually having decent female characters being the rule rather than the exception before they can deal with sensitive subjects pertaining to that gender at all. Yes, I understand that men get raped too, but statistically women are much more likely to be the victims than men are.
And hell, on another tangent entirely, why does the media totally gloss over male rape or use it for comedic effect, but think that female rape is a perfectly acceptable plot twist? I think if anything the fact that "male rape is OK/funny/nonexistent" is even more fucking stupid than putting rape in video games. Rape is never OK, regardless of who is doing the raping and who is being raped.
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Post by Kyubey on Jul 2, 2012 20:13:08 GMT -5
I don't know too much about rape and I don't know too much about video games, so I was about to withhold my useless opinions, but the links provided by CJ gave me some pause.
Rape is a terrible thing, so much so that writing that sentence made me feel weird because I felt just saying that wasn't nearly strong enough to convey my emotions towards this issue. Nevertheless, it's a part of human history, in fact it's been a part of the history of pretty much any culture, whether we like to admit it or not, it's still happening today, and there will probably always be victims of it. That, I think, is justification enough to discuss it in art. However, as many have said, this is a particularly sensitive topic, one that should be treated with utmost caution and respect, more so than pretty much anything else I can think of, really. Therefore, it is my belief that anyone who is not informed enough, mature enough, or experienced enough to talk about it with the honesty it deserves should not go that deep into it.
Which leads me to video games. Are video games mature enough as a medium to handle this issue? Can they portray it with due honesty? That's not a hypothetical question, by the way, I genuinely want to know. And because I don't, I'm going to talk really generally for a second.
Talking personally, I'm quite fine with the portrayal of really dark subject matter. It bothers me sometimes, sure, and it disturbs me a great deal of the time, sometimes, I think, more than most people, but that's what I find interesting about it. It prompts thought and discussion on things we don't often talk truthfully about in polite conversation. By the same token, I loathe any sort of writing, art, or speech that portrays such things in a glorified or sympathetic light, even if it's just for fun. And I think that's what people are afraid of video games doing. These questions become much bigger when applied to an interactive sort of medium, and the truth is that these are the sorts of things that do, at times, shape people's opinions and feelings on these matters. Perhaps one day there might be a game that does tackle this issue in a way that in genuine and has a positive effect on people, but I don't know, we're probably a long way from doing that.
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Post by Shark a' Pult on Jul 2, 2012 20:33:05 GMT -5
Short answer: no. Less short answer: wellllll...it kind of depends. I am not against rape in any particular type of media, so long as it is handled well. Rape happens. Sadly, it happens quite a lot. It's not something we can just gloss over and not allow to be used in stories, because that would just make things irrevocably worse. Representing social issues in the media is one of the best ways to change the status quo. The problem is that people tend not to handle rape as a part of the plot very well at all. In Tomb Raider's case, I think it's absolutely atrocious. No question. Video games need to jump the hurdle of actually having decent female characters being the rule rather than the exception before they can deal with sensitive subjects pertaining to that gender at all. Yes, I understand that men get raped too, but statistically women are much more likely to be the victims than men are. And hell, on another tangent entirely, why does the media totally gloss over male rape or use it for comedic effect, but think that female rape is a perfectly acceptable plot twist? I think if anything the fact that "male rape is OK/funny/nonexistent" is even more fucking stupid than putting rape in video games. Rape is never OK, regardless of who is doing the raping and who is being raped. Actually statistically speaking the greatest number of rapes happen to men, in prison. I read that before. |
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Post by CJ on Jul 2, 2012 22:01:16 GMT -5
I loathe any sort of writing, art, or speech that portrays such things in a glorified or sympathetic light, even if it's just for fun. And I think that's what people are afraid of video games doing. This is pretty why I hold my stance on this subject. I agree with Ticky. Rape in movies and other fiction is alright, so long as the subject matter is treated maturely. It's when it gets into video games that it becomes something else. I don't support violence against children in video games (like the Little Sisters in Bioshock), though that is a whole different matter. But it still applies here. Death, as the Jimquisition video suggested, is a thing we all have to face. It is a universal principle that although inherently bad can be used to promote a better good. Rape is never good, however. It is something that alters a person for the worse, and unlike death they actually have to live through that pain. Like violence against children, rape is something we as a society can avoid. If a character has the option to rape another character in a video game, it immediately glorifies that action. The player can feel enjoyment from it, which is something I think we should avoid. Yes, there are cases where people can enjoy scenes or mentions of rape in media otherwise intended to portray the action in a negative light but there is almost no escaping that sort of thing. Just like I felt uncomfortable removing a woman's clothes in Assassin's Creed 2, a player should not ever have to worry about being involved in rape in an otherwise safe medium. |
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Post by mainy on Jul 2, 2012 23:34:22 GMT -5
in terms of the tomb raider situation i think people are over reacting. a lot of games have had similar things happen if not worse but haven't got as much uproar as this tomb raider thing has.
as in the topic of rape in video games, well i think if its done correctly im ok with it because even though i dont like to think of these things in a real way because well it just flat out depresses me, if done in a mature and non overly graphic way its fine with me.
a similar thing for me would be in the game heavy rain where your playing as the female who's in underwear and a small tank top then gets jumped by 2 masked men in her apartment, it pretty much turns into a attempted rape scene but because it was done in a mature and correct way it made the story more impacting but didn't cause any negative emotion. so if you are going to do that kinda thing in your video game then do it right as heavy rain done.
dont get me wrong im not saying yes put rape in, if you dont need to do it then dont do it is what i say but if you do put it in, handle with extreme care and do it right
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Post by Hitotsumami on Jul 3, 2012 0:40:49 GMT -5
I think rape in a cinematic of a video game, if used maturely, is fine. I think a player should NEVER have the option to rape someone in a game.
Although thinking about it, players in some games do have the option to almost literally be a Hitler and commit genocide. Oh well.
Pretty much my opinion.
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Post by Neurotick on Jul 3, 2012 3:27:38 GMT -5
Wait, when did this become the subject of giving players the ability to rape people in games.
Wasn't this about Lara Croft being almost-raped to make the series "edgier" and "darker" and shit? Because adding a rape simulation to a game is just fucking sick and wrong.
Also rape games already exist. GOD DAMMIT JAPAN.
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Post by CJ on Jul 3, 2012 8:18:50 GMT -5
I agree with Hito. Rape used as a cinematic is alright... so long as it's handled maturely. Lara Croft is already scrutinized as an insult to women and female video game characters so even insinuating she might have been involved in rape is just insulting.
The argument really goes two different ways. I guess I was just talking about playing involvement. I agree with kylor that playing a victim or possible victim is fine, again, if it's handled maturity.
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Post by Shark a' Pult on Jul 3, 2012 12:49:32 GMT -5
I think my only point is that like kidnapping, torture, murder and other abhorrent acts, rape can be utilized as a storyteling mechanic. To just blatantly disregard it outright for sensitivity purposes or because one's own personal views is a mistake, in the same way that it would be a mistake to ignore war as a storytelling mechanic because you are a pacifist. The point of all video games, at least the good ones, is to immerse the player. To make them believe in this other world they are being presented with and feel vested in it. Doubly so when you play as a titular character for the game, and it is about their exploits. So in the case of Tomb Raider, is it a mistake to even think of including rape as a part of the story when the developers are trying to get you to care about Lara and become vested in her exploits and wellbeing? Like a murder, torture or other emotional act, a rape will carry implications and change the pacing and tone of the story in ways nothing else can. Now jumping back to the original train of thought, that the intent of the game is to provide an immersive experience. To this thinking, again, is it wholly a mistake to even consider using it as a storytelling mechanic in gameplay. Unlike a cutscene gameplay provides an actual experience and I believe the intent here is jar the player and make them care about what actually happens to their player. Actually playing through an experience like that, is incomparably different to just watching it. Basically through and through it all, the thing I'm trying to get at is that we shouldn't just write things off as NEVER EVER, and that's not just this issue of a rape, but of any issue really. Of course there are good and bad ways of handling these issues, but to use the issues themselves as a story mechanic is not an inherently bad thing, because like it or not they are part of life and the things people go through.
So then, I'll play double's advocate here for a minute.
The studio approaches you, because you've been put in charge of the new Tomb Raider game. You are told that the writers want to include an issue of rape in the story. How would you handle it as a scene so that it could be considered tasteful? Alternatively, how would you handle it as an issue in actual game play to be considered tasteful?
Keeping in mind, that in the actual game itself, it is handled as a QTE in which you play as Lara, resisting the assault. A rape never actually occurs no matter what, it's just combat scene with some implications tacked on.
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